The Trinity of Rome EXPOSED!
 

This page in RUSSIAN

I have been asked repeatedly as to what I believe regarding the Trinity. Is there such a thing? Am I a Trinitarian? If I were to put it in one statement, I would have to say that the Trinitarian doctrine is a Satanic invention of Rome designed to take away from the Godhead and it's purpose in the gift of salvation. However, merely saying that is "just my opinion" isn't it? And many of you that know me realize I never like to give my personal opinion or interpretation on anything in the Word of God. Why? Because to do so would allow scoffers the opportunity to ignore me by believing in their hearts that I am merely a man with an opinion. Therefore, I choose to give Scripture to back up what I preach. That way, they cannot say it is my opinion simply because I am not the one who wrote the Bible.

Fact is, it's rather easy to expose the deception of the trinity. All one needs do is simply share a few passages on the subject of the Godhead itself. So why not let the Word of the Creator do that which it is designed to do anyway? First however, we need to find out just what this Trinitarian belief entails. What does it mean when someone says they believe in the "Trinity."

Both Webtser's Dictionary as well as the Funk and Wagnall define the Trinity as:

  • "The state or character of being three."
  • "Any union of three parts or elements in one."
  • "A threefold consubstantial (sharing the same substance) personality existing in one Divine Being or substance."
  • "The union of one God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three infinite persons."

And the Catholic Encyclopedia states the following regarding the Trinity...

  • THE DOGMA OF THE TRINITY
    The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion -- the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another. Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."

The way I have been taught the trinity is the same as Rome teaches because I was born and raised Roman Catholic. Provable historical  fact is, ALL that embrace the Trinitarian theology are in fact embracing a Roman Catholic invention. I was taught God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are the same in office and supreme alike in all ways. From a child I was taught that Jesus has the same powers and abilities as well as administration duties as the Father and vise versa. It was also taught the Holy Spirit was 100% identical to all that the Father and the Son can do. Bottom line is, this Trinitarian doctrine declares that there are three infinite persons, sharing the same substance, same power, same administrational duties, gifts, and operations, yet making up only one single solitary God; or one God divided into three parts. This is where the 'god blob' theology originates. In essence, one God with three heads. Is this Biblical? Is this what is spoken as Truth by the Creator God Himself? Is there only one God yet three separate entities? Is it true that no matter where Jesus walked, His Father had to walk as well as His Spirit? Or is this a cleverly designed method by which the enemy can separate brethren and at the same time belittle or destroy the paternal relationship of the Father to His Son? Which in fact will also place our image of the Godhead on a lesser level.

The eternal question here would have to be, are there Scriptures declaring that there is more then one person in the Godhead? Is there evidence that each person of the Godhead assumes different responsibilities? And if so, are these separate persons ever revealed in Scriptures as being in the same place and time, as completely separate persons, thus PROVING the "one God - 3 person" trinity, or "god blob" theology to be a deception of the enemy? In other words... is there proof that the Father could be in one place... the Son in another... and the Holy Spirit in yet another, at the same moment in time? Let's look at a few verses that I believe paint a perfect picture as to who it is we worship. But before we do so, let's look at a favored area of Trinitarians in the Word that is used to fabricate such error as this.

Many that believe the Trinitarian doctrine use 1 John 5:7 as the basis of faith. They do so because of its seemingly easy appearance to be twisted. It simply says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." What they ignore right off is that the verse sayd "THERE ARE THREE" that bear record in Heaven. Still, because this passage declares "these three are one," they seek to convince us that this means that all three are one single solitary God with all power, yet three separate beings at the same time. Does this theology carry in the Word? Looking to Matthew 19:5-6, we see written, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh..." Using the worlds theological definition of the Trinity that states when using the term, "these three are one" must mean one God 100% in three beings. We must also assume that once a man and woman join in marriage, they become one  single solitary person yet "mysteriously" two beings because this passage uses the same theology. In the light of Truth this becomes obvious error quite easily doesn't it? The Word also states in John 10:30, " I and my Father are one." So I ask, where does this leave the Holy Spirit since He is not mentioned? Their theology is proven false by the mere use of the biblical jurisprudence  necessitated in Isaiah 28:10

Romans 12:5 states, "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." So again I ask, does that make us all ONE single solitary Christian now? Yes, if we are Trinitarian in our belief, this is what we must preach if we are to stay true to our faith. Like the "god blob" we will be preaching a "church blob" as well. Or what of 1 Corinthians 10:17 where it proclaims, "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." According to Trinitarian theology, we are ALL one bread as well now. Fact is, I can go on and on and on... or... I can go "precept upon precept, line upon line, and here a little and there a little" all over the Bible to prove that the trinity is error.

When the Scripture declares "these three are one" it actually means these three are in agreement, or in one accord. We mustn't put meanings to a passage so that is says what we want it to say. The Bible specifically warns against that very thing! This passage in 1 John chapter 5 is merely stating there are three separate persons of the Godhead in Heaven that are in agreement with each other as to the state of affairs governed from that eternal Holy City. No more.. no less.

To further illustrate the fact that the Godhead is made up of distinctly different beings with different divine offices, we read, 2 Corinthians 13:14 where it says, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen..." Here all three are mentioned in three different manners. Jesus bestowing grace, the Father, love, and the Holy Spirit administering communion.

Plus, what of Genesis 1:26 where it states, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:..." Two words are graphically apparent here. "US" and "OUR" are used. And this is not the only occasion this occurs.

For the Father to proclaim "as one of US" or "let US go" or "Let US make man in OUR image" is to denote more than one person present during that conversation. The statement, "let us make" denotes an agreement in task as well. Plus, the word "God" in this passage is the same as is found in many passages, including Genesis 1:1...

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

  • "God =  0430 'elohiym {el-o-heem'}  in STRONGS Concordance.

Elohim = "God's" (Plural "more than one God")

Even the word "God" proves there is more then one individual in the Godhead.

My absolute favorite passage on this subject would have to be the one that describes the events transpiring at the baptism of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. This passage proves the Godhead doctrine of three separate entities, in three different positions of the Godhead to be truth.

Here we have Jesus Christ present on Earth stepping out of the Jordan river after His baptism. Then we see the Holy Spirit above the Earth descending from the Heavens in the form of a dove. And finally we hear the voice of the Father in Heaven above the Earth declaring Jesus is His Son in whom He is well pleased.

Three areas in time and space AT THE SAME TIME.

  1. Jesus on the Earth itself
  2. The Holy Spirit in the sky above earth
  3. The Father in Heaven above both the earth and sky

All three persons of the Godhead in THREE DIFFERENT AREAS at the very same moment in time.

Another favorite passage of mine on this topic would have to be Isaiah 6:3 where it says, "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory." Did you catch that?  That's one "holy" for each person of the Godhead! If there is only one God they would not have repeated the worshipful praise three times. Truth is, King David also spokeof three separate God's when in prayer or song. In Psalms 136:1-3 he said, "O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever." Why would give thanks three times is only one was needed? Even Nebuchadnezzar knew there was more than ONE God in his day...

Now notice this later on in Nebuchadnezzar's description of what he saw in that dream.

As anyone with knowledge of the English language, the word "they"most assuredly depicts more than one. This is a reference to the Godhead, as only the Lord can "feed" the ox in the wild.

Notice in verse 14 Belshazzar stated Daniel had the "spirit of the Gods" in him and then Daniel says "they" removed his father's glory for a time.

The angel that is proclaiming the will of God says it is "by the word of the Holy Ones" further confirming the Godhead as three separate persons.

By the way... common sense depicts one truth that exposes this Trinitarian error with great ease. If Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father are ONE SINGLE GOD combined, then riddle me this. Why is it the Father knows the date of the second coming, yet Jesus does not? It's truly that simple! Jesus said plainly in...

  1. Matthew 24:36, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

That passage alone proves Trinitarian theology a deception of the enemy. If Jesus and His Father were "one" as the world defines "one." Then Jesus WOULD know the day and the hour of His return! How can Trinitarian theology answer that? Simple common sense proves the Trinity doctrine is blunt error. Who can we thank for such a doctrine as this? From the mouth of Rome itself, it is proclaimed...

Trinitarian theology is just another prophetic peek into the doctrines of demons coming from Roman Catholicism, and the Antichrist. Only one that hates the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit would preach such a lie as this. The Godhead theology simply proclaims the Father has a Son that is in direct agreement with Him and His Holy Spirit. Ellen White put it ever so plainly when she said...  

Is this no different than a worldly governmental structure? Is this no different than what mankind defines as an "Ambassador of State?" Does not an ambassador have absolute full authority of the Country he represents to proclaim that which his government has sent him to proclaim?

In other words...

Nowhere in Scriptures do we see the trinity doctrine confirmed. Nowhere can we see the Godhead merged into one person, or merely one God, or a "god blob." Not a single "line upon line, or precept upon precept" can confirm this righteously.

For those that would say I am belittling Christ in my beliefs, or taking away from His divinity, I would have to say, did not the Father say, "Let US make man in OUR image." If the Father wasn't looking to downgrade Christ or His divinity when He placed Him by His side. Why should I? Jesus Christ is His Father's representative to mankind is He not? He is supreme in authority, He represents the Father's will perfectly. He is the Son of God.

All praise to God the Father... His Son Jesus Christ... and the Holy Spirit! ALL Three merit perfect praise. Holy, Holy, Holy!

Jesus part of the Godhead perfectly?

I must say, when it comes to validating this truth about the Godhead, one passage found in the book of Hebrews stands as a bright beacon shining clear light on all the passages discussed thus far. It not only helps to solidify the truth in the heart, it boldly proclaims it clear unmistakable expression.

This verse proves Jesus Christ is considered an absolute separate part of the Godhead. The Father Himself (he saith) is calling His Son, "O God" in this passage. This passage also declares God the Father is the God of Jesus Christ as well when it says, " therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness..." Did you catch that? One God is speaking to the other God, saying that "thy God" has anointed Him, His Son! The wording of this passage makes it so clear that there is more then ONE God in the Godhead thereby blasting the godblob theology completely and utterly out of existence. This passage in Hebrews 1:8,9 proves yet another deception fabricated in Roman theology. The Roman Catholic church states the following regarding the Trinity...

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. But this is the catholic faith: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in unity...So the Father is God: the Son is God: and the Holy Ghost is God; And yet there are not three Gods; but one God.So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there are three Gods, or three Lords.He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity." The Athanasian Creed, quoted in History of the Christian Church, Volume 3, Section 132, page 690-693, by Philip Schaff.

In God there are three persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, equal in all perfections." The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p 31 by Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., Imprimatur - September 16, 1957.

Rome clearly states they teach and believe the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "equal in all perfections."

In Hebrews chapter one we found that God the Father was telling God the Son that He is His God. That proves He is more powerful then Jesus, and therefore not "equal in all perfections" as Rome assumes. Stepping back for a moment to look at this one can see that God the Father MUST be more powerful then God the Son because He is His Son's God. So... If we now understand that the "equality issue" is in fact nothing more then a lie of Rome, then we must also agree there is more then ONE God because it is in Hebrews chapter one we learned they lied. Plus, we also have the reality before us that if in fact God the Father is a more powerful God then the God the Son, this means there must be more then ONE God in the Godhead because Hebrews chapter one has just stated there are at least TWO.

As many are already aware, Jesus Christ is in fact God. But what most are unaware of is that Hebrews chapter one declared plainly that Jesus Christ also has a God, and it is His Father! To further verify this fact, did not Jesus cry out to His God from the cross right before He died for our sins?

Why are three different areas of the Godhead needed?

ALL THREE persons of the Godhead are needed for our Salvation. But are they ALL supreme in all ways as Trinitarian theology purports? Fact is, there are things the Father cannot do that Jesus must do, and the Holy Spirit has His work as well in our Salvation that neither the Father or the Son can do. For example, looking into the Word we see numerous areas that state God cannot die, "but we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." -Hebrews 2:9

It is also written in James 1:13 that, "...God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:" yet Matthew 4:1 says that, "...Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

Since the Father cannot die, Jesus had to take on human form so that He could die for us. Our sins caused Jesus to take this position. The wages of sin is death! The Father loves us so much that He gave us His only Son to take our place in the death we deserve. An easy way to understand this threefold union of the Godhead is like this...

The Trinity states ALL THREE are 100% God in same power and abilities. Yet there are things the Father does that the Son cannot, and vise versa. Plus the Holy Spirit does things neither the Father or the Son could do. Yet ALL THREE are in "one accord," or in AGREEMENT. Truth is, we need all three to be in one accord for our Salvation. This is again proven truth when you contemplate the wisdom of 1 Corinthians 12: 4-6

Three different aspects to the Godhead with three different offices to perform, and all three glorify the Father "which worketh all in all." Christians need to dwell on that which has been made known to us by the Father in His Word, and ignore that which He has not made known.

Fact is, He is all knowing is He not? If He chose to keep certain things from us, THERE MUST BE A REASON! And if He hid these things, you can rest assured they are past finding out.

Besides, if He truly wants us to know certain secrets, He will do so when we are better able to understand them without evil influence. Perhaps we shall learn such secrets in heaven when we don't have all the temptations that are designed to pull our focus off of God, thereby clouding our understanding.


"Brief Bible Readings for the Home" have been ALTERED.

Below is an actual scan of pages 107 and 108 of (the unaltered) version of "Bible Readings for the Home" (Below's excerpt came from Harvestime Books Altamont TN 37301) It shares awesome Truth concerning the sinless life of Jesus Christ. It also shares concrete Biblical evidence as to the humanity of Christ as well. It also confirms the book "Bible readings for the home" has been ALTERED by Roman infiltrators within the SDA church. Match these pages with your copy. Is yours altered?

Bible Readings for the Home -Harvestime Books, Altamont TN 37301  page 108

Bible Readings for the Home  -Harvestime Books, Altamont TN 37301  page 107


1. God, the Father Supreme

Supreme in all ways.

2. God, the Son, Jesus Christ, Supreme in Authority

Jesus Christ is the Son of God, one in complete agreement with the eternal Father. Through Christ all things were created. Retaining His divine nature, Christ took upon Himself human nature, was made flesh, and lived on earth as a man but without sin, being an example for us. Was made flesh because "God cannot die, or tempted of evil" so Christ took on flesh so that He could walk in our shoes. He died for our sins on the cross, rose again from the dead, and ascended to the Father where He lives to make intercession for us.

3. God, the Holy Spirit, Divine

The Holy Spirit is Christ's representative upon earth, and is one in purpose with the Father and the Son. He is the Regenerator in the work of redemption.

These three persons, God the Father; Jesus Christ the Son; and the Holy Spirit are the Godhead.


For our SDR friends, Sister White declares...

There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)  -Evangelism 615.1

Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, "It is written." Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.--The Southern Watchman, Feb. 23, 1904, p. 122.

 Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfillment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.  -Signs of the Times, June 19, 1901 par. 4

"The office of the Holy Spirit is to take the things of Christ as they fall from his lips and infuse them as living principles into the hearts opened to receive them. Then we will know both the Father and the Son. - {1888 799.1}" (This is from a letter she wrote rebuking Uriah Smith)

"God has never left Himself without witness on the earth. At one time Melchisedek represented the Lord Jesus Christ in person, to reveal the truth of heaven, and perpetuate the law of God (Letter 190, 1905).

"We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.)  {Ev 616.5} 

 "The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God. When this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we believe and are sure that we are the children of God. . . .  {Ev 616.6} 

  "The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."--Manuscript 20, 1906.  {Ev 617.1} 

"The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897)  {Ev 617.2} 

"We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, --and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 51. (1905)  {Ev 617.3}

Sister White also declares the following regarding the Holy Spirit...

"The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden." -Acts of the Apostles p 52

"In 1888 in the General Conference held at Minneapolis, Minn, the angel of Revelation 18 came down to do His work, and was ridiculed, criticized and rejected. And when the message He brings again, swells into a loud cry, it will again be ridiculed, spoken against and be rejected by the majority." -Ellen G. White in Taking up a Reproach. 1888.

It is to say, to reject, to despise or to minimize to the Holy Spirit will untie an effect dominoes in all the whole of truths that have been accepted. Beginning by this: "The Holy Ghost is the author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy" -Selected Messages Vol. 3 p 30.


How the Trinity Doctrine Took Over the Adventist Church

 The Trinity doctrine did not exist in the SDA Church from its inception.  It was not a doctrine at all during Ellen G. White's lifetime to her death in 1915.

The pioneers of the SDA Church, R.F. Cottrell, Sr., and Jr., D.T. Bordeau, D.M. Canright, J.N. Andrews, Loughborough, John Matteson, A.C. Bordeau, A.T. Jones, W.W. Prescott, E.G. White, James White, and Uriah Smith, were all in agreement that it was that "old Trinitarian absurdity" perpetrated from Rome.  The Apostle Paul saluted the brethren, "Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 1:7.  Paul was no Trinitarian!  Adventist P.S. Cottrell wrote in the July 6, 1869, issue of Review & Herald, " To hold to the doctrine of the Trinity is not so much an evidence of evil intention as of intoxication from that wine of which all nations have drunk.  The fact that it was one of the leading doctrines, if not the very chief, upon which the bishop of Rome was exalted to the popedom, does not say much in its favor . . . .  This should cause men to investigate it for themselves, as when the spirits of devils working miracles undertake the advocacy of the immortality of the soul."

In 1931, after the death of anti-Trinitarian pioneer Uriah Smith, the SDA Church attracted Trinitarians, who began promoting their doctrines, while falsely accusing the pioneers of being "Arian," claiming that Arius taught that "the Holy Spirit was a creation of the Son."  In 1946, in the book, Evangelism, editors LeRoy Edwin Froom and Roy Allen Anderson compiled E.G. White's statements removed from their original context, and intentionally inserted the word "Trinity" in subtitles, to advance the Trinity doctrine, even though she and all the pioneers were anti-Trinitarian.  Perhaps it was a coincidence, but Froom wrote his book after a return from a trip to the Vatican.  Ex-Jesuit priest Alberto Rivera testified on video that the Jesuit Order was instructed by the Black Pope to infiltrate the SDA Church, and bring it over to Rome.

The Trinity Doctrine is essential to unification of all Churches under Rome.  As Roman Catholic Graham Greene wrote, "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in scripture . . . .  But the Protestant Churches have themselves accept­ed such dogmas, as the Trinity, for which there no such precise authority in the Gospels," ("Assumption of Mary," Life magazine, October 30, 1950, p. 51).

In 1958, the Trinity was unofficially introduced into the Church when the book, Questions On Doctrine, was published at the request of evangelicals Barnhouse and Martin, who were preparing to write their book, Kingdom of the Cults, and call the SDA Church a "cult," until the SDA Church leaders quickly changed SDA doctrines.  This avoided the stigma of being labeled a "cult," as Barnhouse and Martin would label all anti-Trinitarians.

In 1968, the SDA Church officially joined the World Council of Churches and National Council of Churches, which require every church to include the Trinity in their statement of beliefs in order to become member churches.

In 1981, SDA General Conference President, Neal C. Wilson, announced to the General Conference meeting in Dallas, Texas, that the Church had officially adopted the Trinity doctrine, which was now #2 in the Church's "27 Fundamental Beliefs."  Wilson said, "There is another universal and truly catholic organization, the Seventh-day Adventist Church," (Adventist Review, March 5, 1981, p. 3).


Food for thought. IS the "Trinity" an ecumenical tactic? Can you see how ALL the worlds churches are embracing it now? Why now?


Was Jesus or the Holy Spirit at one time NON-EXISTENT?

For those SDA brothers and sisters that believe Jesus was at one time non-existent, or you believe that the Holy Spirit was at one time merely an "essence" or non-existent until the incarnation of Christ. Please review the following questions. I pray Sister White's comments are sufficient. They seem rather blunt to me.

Q- DO YOU BELIEVE THE SON OF GOD WAS AT ONE TIME NON-EXISTENT, BUT THE FATHER WAS ALIVE?

Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God.... In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him.--Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900.  {Ev 615.2}

Before this the Spirit had been in the world; from the very beginning of the work of redemption He had been moving upon men's hearts. But while Christ was on earth, the disciples had desired no other helper. Not until they were deprived of His presence would they feel their need of the Spirit, and then He would come. -Desire of Ages 669.1

 Q- WHEN THE PLAN OF REDEMPTION WAS MADE BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD, WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT PRESENT AT THAT TIME?

 The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. -Counsels on Health 1923- p 222

"Life, Original, Unborrowed, Underived.--Jesus declared, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life."--The Desire of Ages, p. 530 (1898)  {Ev 616.2}

"The Pre-existent, Self-existent Son of God.--Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God.... In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him." --Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900.  {Ev 615.2}

"
He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son." --Manuscript 101, 1897.  {Ev 615.3}


The "begotten" issue of Christ

There has been a movement among believers lately to get them to believe that Jesus was at one time not only non-existent, but created by the Father at one time. The thought stems around the use of Psalms 2:7 and the term "begotten" in that passage.

Is this passage saying Jesus was at one time non-existent, and in turn had to be brought into existence by the Father? Or is this passage prophesying that at some time in the future, Christ will be "begotten" of the Father in some way. Note the following New Testament passage that actually refers to Psalms 2:7...

According to Acts 13:33, Jesus was indeed "begotten" on the day He became the first-fruits of all them that slept in the grave; and this makes perfect sense seeing how He was unable to be "begotten" into existence in any other sense of the word. Not only does Paul confirm this, he does so by using the very verse Satan has been convincing others to use out of context today. They are saying Psalms 2:7 states Jesus was "non-existent" at one time, yet Paul says Psalms 2:7 is saying Jesus was begotten by the Father on the very day He rose Him from the grave. No cloud of confusion is present once we have a "line upon line" is there?

Truth is so powerful, and quite the eternal blessing for all I must day. Not only can it expose transparent lies with childlike ease, it glorifies the Father who penned that truth in Heaven. Most Christians already realize that Christ was the Creator of all things, because the Word says so...

With the realization of that fact in mind, how can anyone continue to believe that Jesus was at one time non-existent if in fact He is Creator of ALL things in the first place? It literally makes no sense if you simply sit back and look at it without preconceived ideas designed to cloud the issue. Seriously; since the Word proves He is the only Creator, how did He create things, or set things in motion while being non-existent that would eventually bring about His creation? If He was non-existent at one time, someone had to be creating things BEFORE He arrived all along. Satan preaches this folderol to make John 1:3 to appear as a lie. The Word clearly says He created EVERYTHING and NOTHING was made that He didn't create. This includes all that was supposedly present before His creation, if in fact He needed to be created. You see how transparent lies truly are once the Light of Truth shines upon them? Confusion is blasted away as easy as darkness flees at the lighting of the candle. Truth never has this problem with hard core reality; it's the same yesterday, today, and forever!

John 5:26 has also been placed at the forefront as a passage that can be used to proclaim Christ non-existent at one time in time.

In STRONG'S Concordance we see the word "HAVE" (#2192) can be translated as, "to hold" "keep" or even "possess." If any of these definitions are used, STRONG'S stresses the point further by stating it is, "used of those joined to any one by the bonds of natural blood or marriage or friendship or duty or law etc, of attendance or companionship " This leads me to ask the question... Are not the Father and Son in agreement and joined as "natural blood" or a as a "friendship, duty, law, or companionship?" In other words, would it not be better understood to say the Father is in agreement that Jesus will use the life already within Himself as a Creator God to bring His children from the grave on that great and dreadful day? If we read just a verse preceding the passage we see this to be the context...

The Word clearly says the dead in Christ will come to a day where they will actually hear the voice of the Creator, Jesus Christ. And what happens when they hear this wonderful voice? The Word says they "shall live" does it not? And then it goes on to say that they live because the Father is already in agreement with His Son that by the sound of His voice they shall live. What else can they do but respond to such a voice that created them on day one? This is why this wonderful Saviour called Lazarus BY NAME on that day. Had Jesus just said "come forth" ALL the graves would have ripped open because He is the source of all life on earth! Or as John puts it, He does "have life in himself."

Another way to translate the passage using the Greek would be to say, "For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to be the source of life in himself." This is more plausible to embrace because the context of the preceding and following verses makes better sense when stated in this way.

E.G. White puts it best by stating...


"Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God.... In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him" -Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900.  {Ev 615.2}

  "God and Christ knew from the beginning, of the apostasy of Satan and of the fall of Adam through the deceptive power of the apostate. The plan of salvation was designed to redeem the fallen race, to give them another trial. Christ was appointed to the office of Mediator from the creation of God, set up from everlasting to be our substitute and surety. Before the world was made, it was arranged that the divinity of Christ should be enshrouded in humanity. "A body," said Christ, "hast thou prepared me" (Heb. 10:5). But He did not come in human form until the fullness of time had expired. Then He came to our world, a babe in Bethlehem.

     No one born into the world, not even the most gifted of God's children, has ever been accorded such demonstration of joy as greeted the Babe born in Bethlehem. Angels of God sang His praises over the hills and plains of Bethlehem. "Glory to God in the highest," they sang, "and on earth peace, good will toward men" (Luke 2:14). O that today the human family could recognize this song! The declaration then made, the note then struck, the tune then started, will swell and extend to the end of time, and resound to the ends of the earth. It is glory to God, it is peace on earth, good will to men. When the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings, the song then started in the hills of Bethlehem will be reechoed by the voice of a great multitude, as the voice of many waters, saying, "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth" (Rev. 19:6).

     By His obedience to all the commandments of God, Christ wrought out a redemption for men. This was not done by going out of Himself to another, but by taking humanity into Himself. Thus Christ gave to humanity an existence out of Himself. To bring humanity into Christ, to bring the fallen race into oneness with divinity, is the work of redemption. Christ took human nature that men might be one with Him as He is one with the Father, that God may love man as He loves His only-begotten Son, that men may be partakers of the divine nature, and be complete in Him.

     The Holy Spirit, which proceeds from the only-begotten Son of God, binds the human agent, body, soul, and spirit, to the perfect, divine-human nature of Christ. This union is represented by the union of the vine and the branches. Finite man is united to the manhood of Christ. Through faith human nature is assimilated with Christ's nature. We are made one with God in Christ."  -Selected Messages book 1, p250 - 251


Is Jesus Christ God?

 Just a "few" of the MANY passages that reflect His eternal truth...

After Thomas doubted Jesus appeared to other disciples, Jesus returned 8 days later to show Thomas the scars on His body. Then Thomas responded...

 Stephen calls upon GOD, and according to this passage the God he chose to speak to was JESUS.

Here we see John the Apostle introducing the visions he received in the Book of Revelation. He speaks of Jesus Christ quite plainly, and in the same breath declares Jesus is declaring Himself God as He speaks of making us kings and priests unto Him. He continues and uses the term "AND" His Father when He declares we are His Father's kings and priests as well.

 God judges. What is that Judge's name?

Here we see the Scripture saying the "Word was WITH God, and then it says the Word WAS God." That's two God's mentioned in one verse!

  • Hebrews 1:6, "And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."
  •  Who is this Saviour?

     Who is that Lord?

    Who is the Creator?

    Is Jesus Christ equal to God?

    NOTE: In John 1 it said the "Word was WITH God" and then it said the "Word was God" in that passage? This not only declares Jesus is the Word, but as a God He was "with" God as well.

    As most will agree, it was God Himself at Sinai that wrote the Ten Commandments.

    Another time Jesus was approached by a rich man who claimed to understand who he was. Jesus knew He knew who He was as is clear in the following passage.

    The rich man plainly called Jesus "Good Master." Jesus then said "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God", in return. This is why Jesus only quoted the last 6 commandments to the man in the following verses when instructing him on what he needed to do. Those commandments deal with how we love each other. But the first four were never shared with the man by Jesus because he already appeared to know who God was. The first four commandments deal with how we love God. Why would Jesus declare calling Him "Good Master" was the same as calling Him God if it wasn't true?

    One thing to keep in mind in regards to Jesus Christ being God. When they declare Him to be either non-existent at one time or only a man and not God or part of the Godhead they are in essence denying God are they not? What does the Word say of such people?

    Not only are they considered to be liars and without the Father when they deny His Son, they are also declared by the Word of God itself to be in fact one of the many antichrists we find running rampant in these last days.

    1 John 5:20, "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

    IS THE HOLY SPIRIT GOD?

    We know the Father is God because of numerous Scripture on it. However, have you noticed that false teachers use only the verses pertaining to Him while avoiding the above verses pertaining to His Son in their battle to confuse. But what of the Holy Spirit? Does the Word declare Him God as well, further proving the "one God" or "Trinity" theory false?

    Does the Word also share characteristics of the Holy Spirit that prove it to be a separate person all on its own?

  • The Holy Spirit physically descended upon Jesus
     
    John 1:32-33, "And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost."

  • Truth is, BOTH the Father and the Spirit sent Jesus...

    Is Jesus being deceptive and saying the Holy Sprit will testify of Him when in fact it's only "Jesus Spirit" testifying? Saying the Holy Spirit is just Jesus' mind or thoughts makes Him to be a liar when you read this verse.

    Notice that in that verse it states the Holy Spirit will HEAR and then tell us what He hears. If the Holy Spirit is just the "thoughts" of Jesus or the Father, how is this possible?

    If the Spirit is just the "thoughts" of Jesus, how did it raise Him from the dead?

    Why would Jesus pray for ANOTHER Comforter if it was just Him all along?

    Keep in mind, the term "blasphemy" can only be attributed to a GOD

    BASIC FACTS ON THE SPIRIT:

    If the Spirit is just a "thought" process of the Father or the Son as some preach, why is it the Father is sending forth the Spirit of His Son? Why not send forth His own Spirit? This proves the Spirit of the Son is a separate being altogether.

    If the Spirit is just a "thought" process of the Father or the Son, why is it the Father is sending forth ANOTHER Comforter? Who is th Comforter?

    The phrase "He shall teach you..." denotes the Spirit is a separate being. If it was just the thought process of Jesus it would say "I shall teach you..."

    Here the Comforter is spoken of in the THIRD PERSON by saying, "HE shall testify of ME "I will send HIM unto you." Now for the clincher...

     If the Holy Spirit is just a "thought" process of the Father or the Son, how can "HE" guide you, or how can the term "HIMSELF" be used, and especially, how can he "HEAR" things to speak to us about? Is God talking to Himself? That makes no sense.

    BOTTOM LINE:
    If you deny the Holy Spirit exists, than all the promises shared above regarding what He will do for you in life are forfeited by YOU! Now do you see why your prayer life is so lacking?


    STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND?

    In the Word of God we find some evidence as to why this topic is so allusive to us. Yes, there are basic facts about the Godhead the Word brings forth that we are able to understand. Still, there are some areas we simply cannot grasp. Why is that? It has to do with the wisdom of our God.

    Have you ever heard the term, "The information I have is on a need to know basis"? In the government of mankind, which we already understand has its basic structure patterned after the Heavenly government, there are certain times when privy information is held back. Reason being is, if the information were to be made known, the uneducated would run with it in ways that would be harmful to both the individual as well as the nation at large. The WHOLE picture needs to be understood before any further information is put forth by the Lord regarding His Holy Spirit. However, doing so would make matters worse simply because we are unable to grasp certain Truths in the whole picture He has to offer in the first place. For it is written that . "...His ways are past finding out!" (Romans 11:33) Since we cannot understand the whole picture, then we would obviously misunderstand what He has to share regarding His Spirit. The fact He doesn't share proves that quite plainly.

    Yes, there are some that believe they know it all. These "doctors of divinity" fail to realize that while in Heaven we will be studying God's Word all throughout eternity. If they understand it 100% now, why do they not walk upon the waters, raise the dead, heal the sick, and preach sermons that enrapture billions? Truth is, if they know it all, what shall they study once they arrive in His Kingdom? Even Science admits that mankind can only hope to muster 15% to a whopping 18% of his own brain activity in his pre-Heavenly state. Me thinks a re-think is in order for those that know "all things" of His Holy Writ.

    Bottom line: Mankind simply cannot understand certain things at this time. With that said, what would the apostles had done when Jesus was lifted up to Heaven if they were allowed to see the massive Heavenly gates ajar, the beautiful streets of gold reflecting His brilliance, the retinue of angels rejoicing and the Father Himself seated upon His throne welcoming His Son Jesus into the City of Heaven in a grand celebration of creation like none ever contemplated on Earth? They would have preached a message from that day forward that was far different then that which the Lord preferred. The prize of salvation would have been marred by the hope of fleshly gain instead. Such wisdom is presented by this mighty God when He allowed those clouds to shield such an event as His ascension!

    If the Word of God does not cover certain areas of the Truth, we must NEVER second guess our Father which art in Heaven! He wrote what He wrote, and held back what He held back, simply because He is all knowing. He understands perfectly what is best for each and everyone of us in all aspects of life in a way that even the greatest minds of all time could never hope to imagine. It is not our position to correct Him or even suggest that He is lacking in His Word, and therefore our duty to "discover" secrets He has held back. All that we see in these estranged doctrines of the Trinity and other strange philosophies on this topic is simply mans uneducated assumptions seeking to take the position of Truth our God has never penned. We must NEVER assume the secret things that belong to our God are ours for the taking!

     "The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden." -Acts of the Apostles p 52

    That God should thus be manifest in the flesh is indeed a mystery; and without the help of the Holy Spirit we cannot hope to comprehend this subject. The most humbling lesson that man has to learn is the nothingness of human wisdom, and the folly of trying, by his own unaided efforts, to find out God. He may exert his intellectual powers to the utmost, he may have what the world calls a superior education, yet he may still be ignorant in God's eyes. The ancient philosophers boasted of their wisdom; but how did it weigh in the scale with God? Solomon had great learning; but his wisdom was foolishness; for he did not know how to stand in moral independence, free from sin, in the strength of a character molded after the divine similitude. Solomon has told us the result of his research, his painstaking efforts, his persevering inquiry. He pronounces his wisdom altogether vanity -Selected Messages Vol. 1 249.1

    What is our Father's perfect will for us?

    By the mouth of TWO or THREE Witnesses!

    When declaring truth unto those the Lord sends our way, our Lord instructs us in the following way.

    That being said, why would our God choose to proclaim His truth unto His people in a different manner? We say God is THREE in number. Not "one in three" as the Roman Trinitarians preach. The Father is a God. Jesus is a God. And the Holy Spirit is a God. This is why ALL THREE were present at the Baptism of Christ. The Father speaking from above in the Heavens. The Holy Spirit lighting upon Jesus as a Dove. And Jesus Himself in the water.

    So, since God tells us that by "the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established" when sharing His truth with those in need of hearing it. Then would not the same apply to our God when He says the following?

    Truth is, if you understand the theology behind the Two Witnesses then you also see how again the truth that is put forth in Matthew 18:16 still applies in that His Word proclaims the truth via Two Witnesses as well. That being the case. The "One God" theist who is actually a Roman Trinitarian by defintion has to admit error in that they claim there is only "one God." So again I ask, why would the Lord command us to share His truth in one way while He chooses to do so in another way? Only the "god of confusion" of "Babylon" preaches that way.

    Do you recall when the Philistines heard the shout of the people of God approachign them in 1Samuel chapter four? Notice what they said about the God of Heaven that sen the plagues upon Pharaoh and split the Red Sea.

    Or what of this passage from when Jesus was speaking from the cross?

    Let me ask you one question. Is God the Father hard of hearing wherein Jesus would have to say "My God..." and then repeat Himself figuring His Father in Heaven didn't hear Him? No, of course not. Our Father in Heaven has perfect hearing. Jesus did not have to repeat Himself at all. So why did he say "My God" twice? Because He (being one in the Godhead) was speaking to the Father AND to the Holy Spirit while He was dying on that cross.

    Nuff said?

    SDR Students Speak Out:

    Sister Elena stated the following:

    In their desperate attempts, Trinitarians compile huge studies and make hours-long videos explaining away the truth about Godhead, presented in the Bible in a very simple and a short way. So-called 'Doctors of Divinity' claim they know it all. But do they? If yes, then I would like to ask those who support Trinitarian views to riddle me this:

    1.  Genesis 1: 26 says "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:." and Genesis 1:27 says ".male and female created he them."

    How come that both men and women represent God's image (both having two hands and legs, head, neck, and body) but yet they perform different functions: man cannot conceive and give birth, women don't grow beards and mustaches, don't have hairy chests, and so on. ? Also, shouldn't they be one creature thereby representing Trinitarian 'Oneness', thereby proving its validity?

    To me, differentiation of their functions clearly signals that a man and a woman represent images of different Divine Persons who perform different duties according to their plan of our salvation. After all, weren't we created in the image of God? So why would suddenly the original be different from the image of that very same original?

    2. Psalms 110:1 says "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    How come that if I, representing the image of God, will suddenly start offering myself out loud in front of you a seat by my right hand and will thank myself in response to me, you will immediately think that I am mentally impaired, but God, whose image I represent, suddenly remains healthy? Again, how come that the image is different from the original it represents? How did a 'mentally impared' God manage to create beautiful and perfect things and such an overwhelming complexity that keeps things in place, that it fascinates everyone from uneducated people to Doctors of science?

    3. Matthew 3:16-17 says "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

    How come that if you remove a part of me, I become disabled or dead, depending on how much you remove, but yet, God, whose image I represent remains alive, not talking about being disabled? Shouldn't I be able to split in two or three without any consequences and then come back as a whole piece since I represent the image of that Triune God? Seriously, I was created in His image!!!

    Dear Trinitarians, I know that reaction may be either anger or scoffing. However, my intent was not to anger you and I do not mock you. I am as serious as you are. Anger or scoffing won't help you because as Christians, you are to point dying souls to the truth and save them. It is a blessing for us when others come to us with questions. If you claim you know it, then answering my questions will be a piece of cake for you. Please tell me where I am wrong and save my soul, or my blood will be on your hands.

    Sincerely,
    Elena.


    Brother Alex stated the following in an online blog located here...

    "The trinity doctrine was created by the Vatican.. and enforced by publishing edited (bogus) Bibles that "prove" that the trinity is true. Yet if you read the KJV Bible it says, 1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Before it is said that "these three are one" proves the trinity, consider these facts...

    Therefore, 1 John 5:7 is actually saying that the three separate Persons of the Godhead, are in one agreement, likeminded, of one accord. So what can be concluded regarding the trinity doctrine? It is heresy. Bible proves it heresy, common sense after reading the Bible proves it heresy, and the very existence of the Godhead Himself proves it heresy.

    So how and why did the trinity come about? The answer can be read here...
    http://www.remnantofgod.org/onegod.htm
    (Note: the link I just posted will be reported as flaming catholics when in reality its a wake up call for catholics and all believers of trinity so please pass this info on for the sake of those truly striving to be true Christians)

    -Alex

    The Presents of God ministry